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AndreDoles
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Post subject: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
 Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 08:18 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jun 01, 2003
Posts: 6518
Location: California
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So, I was coming back from school yesterday, and so I popped into a local music store and was talking to the guy who owned the shop. We got into a big long talk about Eddie Van Halen and the whole musicman/peavey/charvel/who's next endorsement thing. I brought up the subject, I wonder why the Kramers died because they were a killer guitar and everything was going to well for them. He said to me that the company died because of Michael Jackson. I was like, HUH? I never heard anything about that one. He said, ya, Michael bought the company from them, but never paid them for it... and they have been in court for YEARS about it. So, I told him I'd look into that when I got home, because that sounds interesting.<br><br>Sure enough... tons of reports just recently released. Vaccaro used to head Kramer Guitar Company, and recently won a judgement in court, and took possesion of about 6 million dollars worth of Michaels most private and prized possesions... and is now selling them off. The stuff has been in storage for 10 years and was seized to pay off the debt that Michael owed them. Not only that, they jad judgements against Mr. and Mrs. Jackson, Tito, Randy, Reebie, Marlon, Jermaine and LaToya because it was a family owned business.<br><br>http://www.ndtv.com/ent/musicworldstory.asp?section=Music&slug=Mammoth+Jackson+collection+sold&id=2570<br><br>http://www.election.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/11/earlyshow/leisure/celebspot/main605425.shtml are just two of the links. If you click here, it will do a google search with tons of articles about Kramer and how Michael and family put the bullet in the company that we all loved so dearly: <br><br>http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Michael+Jackson%22+%22Kramer+Guitar%22<br><br>I had never knew about this and always wondered what happened to the now defunct company. Does anybody have any inside info as to what really happened with that whole thing? Did Kramer go down hill and then sold out to the Jacksons only to never get paid? I'm gonna email Mike over at VintageKramer.com and see if he knows anything about that story...<br><br>Anyways, the reason it's here under Official, is because it really did happen... and the reason it's Van Halen related is because Eddie used to endorse them... which was the basis for the 5150!... kinda sorta. The baretta style anyways...  |
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Quoting one is plagiarism. Quoting many is research. --Anonymous.
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Wolfgang_1984
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 10:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 579
Location: United States
Status: Offline
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darn HIM! darn THEM!! darn THE JACKSONS TO HELL!!!  |
_________________
"Did som3BodY saY FaIr
WaRniNG! ..LoRd stRiKe tHat po0R BoY DoWn"
Better guitars make better guitarist!
"GIMME A BOTTLE O' ANYTHANG YOU GOT!...and a GLAZE DONUT!!"
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Elessar
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 05, 2004
Posts: 1394
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
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| <br>
Quote:
darn HIM! darn THEM!! darn THE JACKSONS TO HELL!!!
[lol]Ahh The odds of life |
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Speed is only a tool!
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eruption1
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 01:28 PM
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Retired Moderator
Joined: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 1219
Location: United States
Status: Offline
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| Michael is like that CEO of Norelco razors, He liked the Kramer so much in the "beat it solo" that he bought the company, He should have used some of the money he made from stealing the beatles song rights from Paul "No Meat" Mcartney to pay for it... |
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Greg....
"I had no money and couldn?t afford a Fuzz Face, or a wah-wah or a rind modulator, or whatever Hendrix had in his whole rig. I just plugged straight into an amp and turned it up to 11, and boom! So in order to get a different or unique sound, I had to learn to squeeze it out of the strings with just my fingers." - (EVH 1999)
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rock-billy
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 01:43 PM
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Retired Moderator
Joined: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 3387
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
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SolaGratia
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 367
Location: United States
Status: Offline
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| Wow! I never knew about the Kramer connection before. <br><br>I had seen the story on Entertainment Tonight or Access Hollywood, one of the two. Their hook was, what if damning evidence is found that could be used against him in the young boy case. Never was it mentioned about how this became a terminal blow to the Kramer line.<br><br>Un-believable. <br><br>Wait .... MJ is involved. I totally believe it. |
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jumbowolfe
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 02:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 83
Location: United States
Status: Offline
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| Andre asked me to post what Michael's involvement was at the end, so here's a stab at it. For those of you who don't know who I am, I run a website called vintagekramer.com.<br><br>Basically, Kramer failed not because of Michael Jackson, but because of some really bad management and a multitude of bad business decisions. Even around 1980, Guitar Center had purchased a large chunk of Kramer in order to keep it afloat. Off and on throughout the 80's, Kramer struggled even when they had the massive sales, EVH pushing them along with countless other endorsees.<br><br>So basically, towards the end, it really started getting bad. Kramer was suffering because they had taken on so many endorsees and couldn't pay them, so people started leaving and the demise started. EVH left around 1990, as you guys know, to pursue the Ernie Ball. Eddie has said in interviews that it was because he found out ESP had been making the bulk of Kramer's parts for quite some time, which was true, but it was probably due to Eddie seeing the writing on the wall with Kramer. He and Dennis Berardi (ex CEO) were really good friends, so I doubt it had anything to do with the overseas connection. However, on a funny note, Eddie's 5150 neck was probably an ESP made neck, which was reglued to make the larger headstock. Most of Kramer's necks through the 80's were made by ESP. As you guys may know, George Lynch had originally approached Kramer about an endorsement deal, and most likely, he probably found out ESP had been making the bulk of their parts, so he pretty much built ESP into what it is today because of leaving Kramer to help build that company up.<br><br>From what I've heard from ex employees and former execs, the real downfall occurred when Henry Vacarro (the main owner/investor in Kramer) invested a HUGE chunk of money in the Ashbury Park renovation on the Jersey Shore. If you guys watch the Sopranos, you'll see the failed building project in Season 3 when all the guys are out on the construction project. This project was invested in by Henry, Johnny Cash, The Jacksons, and countless others. Somewhere along the way, the cashflow stopped and the project was never completed leaving Henry with just about no money. With Kramer hurting and Henry having no more money to invest in it, it was really starting to become evident that Kramer was not going to make it. This is not to mention, Dennis Berardi funding many of his own projects with Kramer money, such as the Moscow Peace Festival, which Kramer put a LARGE chunk of money into. If you guys go back and watch that event, look at how many Kramer endorsees were playing that gig (Skid Row, Motley Crue, Gorky Park, Bon Jovi, Cinderella). Henry even stated that alot of his money was going into Dennis Berardi's nose, but thats rumor, its never been confirmed.<br><br>So Henry had approached the Jacksons about buying the Kramer name so the company could stay afloat around 1991. From what I understand, Michael never paid up, hence why Henry has been in legal battles with Michael and the family for quite some time. Kramer filed for bankruptcy protection in 1991. Henry tried to resurrect the company in 1995, and when that didn't work out, Gibson finally purchased what was left of Kramer. That is why you see Gibson/Musicyo selling Kramers today.<br><br>So in essence, Kramer failed because of its own mismanagement, although Michael did play a small part in its going under. It was a matter of time though guys, grunge was in, Charvel/Jackson had been purchased by a large overseas company, so it was inevitable anyway, especially after Eddie left. If he had stayed on board, more than likely, Kramer would probably be in business in some shape or form to this day.<br><br>If you guys want to check out more details, go to my site via these links. There's some great stories of Eddie being at the factory from former employee Steve Z.<br><br>Hope that helps clear it up a bit.<br>Mike<br><br>http://www.vintagekramer.com/story.htm<br><br>http://www.vintagekramer.com/company34.htm |
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Vintage Kramer - The Online Source for Kramer Information
http://www.vintagekramer.com
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Spidey
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 02:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 30, 2004
Posts: 1143
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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shaggy
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 02:30 PM
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Moderator
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: Aurora, Illinois - U.S.A.
Status: Offline
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W  W!<br><br>That's a VERY interesting story.<br> |
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musicman
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 02:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 27, 2003
Posts: 70
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
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M.J is BAD  |
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Matteo
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jumbowolfe
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 02:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 83
Location: United States
Status: Offline
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Another interesting note I forgot to mention, the guys that distribute the EVH D-tuna, AP International, do any of you know what the AP stands for and what the relation to Kramer is?<br><br>There's some trivia for you... <br><br>Mike  |
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Vintage Kramer - The Online Source for Kramer Information
http://www.vintagekramer.com
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mikefont
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 956
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
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| the only AP I know of is the Associated Press?<br><br>Don't leave us hanging...tell us!<br> |
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Spidey
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 03:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 30, 2004
Posts: 1143
Location: Canada
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jumbowolfe
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 03:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 83
Location: United States
Status: Offline
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AndreDoles
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Post subject: Re: Michael Jackson Killed Kramer Guitars...
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 04:05 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jun 01, 2003
Posts: 6518
Location: California
Status: Offline
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Quote:
Another interesting note I forgot to mention, the guys that distribute the EVH D-tuna, AP International, do any of you know what the AP stands for and what the relation to Kramer is?<br><br>There's some trivia for you... <br><br>Mike
<br><br>Hey thanks for your quick response on the full scoop there Mike. I knew if anybody knew what that was all about, it'd be you! Awesome summary. So a $60,000 storage bill was flipped for ... how much you recon? Many Many MILLIONS of dollars. I can only imagine that a sale like that would be a once in a lifetime investment for a serious collector. There's probably over a $100 million worth of stuff if unloaded on the open market. Who knows, maybe it's worth even more if sold intact back to Michael. I'm sure he'd be willing to pony up a billion to get it all back... I know if *I* had that much money, I'd rather have my family collection back than to have an extra spare billion laying around.<br><br> <br><br>I'm dying to hear the connection on your trivia question. I have no idea on the answer but am on the edge of my seat! <br><br>And everybody be sure to check out the rest of Mike's site. It's AWESOME and one of a kind. Tons of pictures of Eddie's guitars, and lots of information. If you've never been there before, you're missing out.<br><br>Here's a picture of Mike that I took of him at the Anaheim 2004 NAMM show. He's pictured with the lead singer of George Lynch's band... who just happens to be holding and displaying an Halen.com guitar pick!  <br><br> <br><br>And here's one of me... with the logo of the guitar pick on my t-shirt. <br><br> <br><br>Man, we just met SOOOOOO many rock stars that week, it was just unbelievable. I never did put all my photo's online from the show.<br><br>  |
_________________
Quoting one is plagiarism. Quoting many is research. --Anonymous.
There's a difference between being a good musician and having the ability to become a good musician.
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